Wednesday, April 2nd, 2008 comments 56 comments

Playground Duel: The Wrap-Up

Last week at this time, as you all may remember, Offsprung was in something between a tizzy and a tantrum. Babble.com, what passes for our competition in this tiny world of “alternative” online parenting publications, had started a community called “Babble Playground.” Our own “Playground” had been active for almost a year by this time, and we felt usurped, if not completely ripped off. Much discussion ensued, and then some loyal Offsprungians, on their own volition, went to sign up for this other Playground, starting a discussion group called “People Who Like Offsprung.com.”

If we meant to get Babble’s attention, then their attention was procured. A few days later, I received an email from Rufus Griscom, founder and CEO of Nerve Media, Babble’s parent company. Rufus and I have met in person once, maybe twice, and I’ve been writing for his online magazines for years, so his tone was somewhere between friendly and condescending.

“We had no idea that you had social networking functionality on your site,” he wrote. “I haven’t been there in some time. Any appearance of overlap is a case of great minds thinking alike.”

I might dispute bestowing the title of “great minds” on the guy who wrote a song called “I Wipe My Ass Upon Your Novel” (me) and the guy who started an online sex magazine for neurotics (him). Still, I can accept that, possibly, this might have been a coincidence. Certainly, no one has cornered the important “Facebook For Parents” market yet, and there are only so many bells and so many whistles that one can place on such a venture. But I find it strange that Babble didn’t realize that our internet community, which eerily resembles theirs, was named the exact same thing, or that they didn’t bother to check.

We did check, with our trusty legal counsel, and we found that Babble has done nothing illegal. There has been no infringement, trademark- or other-wise. Thus, our dual Playgrounds will play on alongside each other.

But not, apparently, with the same families invited.

Griscom’s email went on to say, before wishing my family a “balmy spring,”: “We are going to take the thread down because it’s inaccurate and kinda tacky, I think, to have your site promoted this way, whether or not this is coming from your people.”

While what our Offsprungians did wasn’t necessarily rational, they kept it clean and innocent, and their chatter died completely after 24 hours when they returned to their actual community. Is that “kinda tacky”, or is it kinda tackier to censor your parenting community before it even starts, especially when the there are only two other groups on your site and the one for “Tribeca parents” is invitation-only?

No matter how annoying Offsprung’s community can get, and it can get pretty annoying sometimes, we never delete a post, or a thought, or a sentiment, and if someone wants to come on our site to try to promote theirs, well, they can wade through the thicket like the rest of us. No one is excluded, and everyone is welcomed. I don’t think Babble’s nascent “Playground” can make the same claim.

We’ve had disputes with our competition in the past. But Babble is still a high-quality publication, totally deserving of its National Magazine Award nomination. They’ve published writers who we respect enormously, as friends and colleagues, including Ayun Halladay, Rebecca Woolf, Arthur Bradford, Trey Ellis, and many more. They’ve pushed certain unspoken truths about parenting into the foreground of conversation, and they’ve done so with wit and style.

But as far as “community” goes, Babble is an expensive downtown urban loft rehab, where everything looks pretty, but it all feels so perfect, so smooth, so sterile, so target-marketed, so…fake. Offsprung, on the other hand, is like going over to the house of a good friend, a friend who has three kids and can’t afford to even dream about a nanny. The house is imperfect. It’s loud. There’s a weird yellow stain with hair clumps behind the toilet. But it’s home, and it’s comfortable, and it’s yours.

472028910_ec8f1fde23_m.jpgWe’ve been doing Offsprung for two years now, one year of preparation, and one year live, and when I say “us”, I mean dozens of people who’ve worked long hours for no pay because we believe in this site and we believe in the values for which it stands. Of course this is a commercial venture. We have ads, and someday we hope to make enough off those ads, or from other sources, so we can stop this from being a completely volunteer effort. Babble, for all its efficiency and high-quality writing, can’t make the same claim. It’s been target-marketed and product-researched to the hilt, and it shows. The people in the two communities are basically the same–good, hard-working parents who want to do right by their kids but also hang on to a shred of their pre-parenthood identities. It all depends on who they want as their landlord.

But enough bashing on the competition. I wish them luck in their sterile loft community and hope that no more “kinda tacky” people darken their doorstep. Meanwhile, we’ll continue to barely pay the mortgage over here, and hopefully watch our family grow and grow. I hope you all stay around as well.

Love,
The mgmt.

Tell us what you think!

(127 days ago)

I find myself spending more and more time here versus other "on-line communities" of which I am a part. I know it can be frustrating at times to see the slow pace of its growth, but I've noticed more and more new faces here over the past several months and I believe a critical mass is developing.

Love,
The Kinda Tacky Mommagrrl

(127 days ago)

I'm spending way less time here lately due to increased work pressure, but I just love this community and this site. Now I'm'a go and post something silly.

(127 days ago)

Also, um... I wouldn't even call myself an actual blogger, but when I did pretend to blog... I googled my blogname and several variations because I did not want to use someone else's title. One would think that the kids down at Babble would be competent to do that.

(127 days ago)

Other online communities irritate the hell out of me, and I've been on the internet longer than most (ie- I remember punch cards, and having to type out bang-paths to send an email). This is the first place where I don't feel like the other commenters are on other, more neurotic planets.

Huzzah!

(127 days ago)

Rufus copied me on that e-mail, as I was the "offending" and "tacky" (!) member of the Offsprung community who started a "People who like Offsprung.com" group on Babble's website. (I've been called a lot of things over the years, but "tacky" is a new one.) I was surprised that they felt the need to shoot that down. They must have been feeling threatened at some level.

Anyway, hurrah for your measured assessment of the situation. I won't be wasting anymore time trying to post things over at Babble's playground, which now makes me think not so much of trendy NYC lofts as it does of the Eastern Bloc.

(127 days ago)

"Kinda" tacky? Aw hell nah! If someone is going to slap that label on me, they're gonna see some full frontal tacky! Screw this "kinda" crap. Why i oughtta...

Just kidding. Babble is too slick and sterile for me - it's not even worth going to for the sole purpose of a little good-natured, albeit tacky (whatever!), tom-foolery. I do happen to know that the parents who hang out there are pretty decent though (McG, I'm talkin to you girl) so if our shennanigans brought a few of them to our playground then it's all for the good.

(127 days ago)

yep, PBM, i'm with you. i've worked hard to be this tacky. and this is the only unreferreeed (sound it out) parenting place on the internet that isn't 90% nutjob-in-a-bad-way. so apparently tacky = good communication. or something. whatever it is, i'll take it.

(127 days ago)

This is what was niggling me about Babble:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sweetjuniper/1398158017/

It would seem the "forgot" about not using other peoples good ideas (and photos) more than once.

(126 days ago)

FWIW, I've never been involved in Babble and couldn't be less interested. JTC, you're way too funny to be tacky. Now, if you'd topped your post with some generic Cheez Whiz and crushed-up potato chips, you might be edging into Tackyland.

I've been a card-carrying loser nerd geek for over 15 years, and a huge proponent of internet communities. Heck, it's even become a part of my job (administering distance education). And Offsprung is one of the best examples of online communities I've seen.

(126 days ago)

Well, Neal thanks for sticking with Offsprung. We know it's a labor of love...

I for one haven't met a group of parents (or soon to be) that I like as much as I like the Offsprung parents.
So thanks for providing a place for those of us that hang on the fringe a place to converse, make fart jokes (really people we need more of these), talk politics, express ourselves, and read some pretty kick ass columns.

As for Babble - well, everything has to have a ying to a yang right? For me personally participating in Babble would be equivalent of trying to have a conversation on a NYC street corner.

So thanks again to the Mgmt (Offsprung Overlords).

(126 days ago)

SONOFA - stupid paragraph breaks.

(126 days ago)

But enough about Offsprung, people. What do YOU think about Offsprung?

(126 days ago)

"Offsprung, on the other hand, is like going over to the house of a good friend, a friend who has three kids and can’t afford to even dream about a nanny. The house is imperfect. It’s loud. There’s a weird yellow stain with hair clumps behind the toilet."

Have you been visiting Oregon recently and sneaking around my abode? Because that's a dead-on description, sir.

Truth? I dislike Babble with every piercing and tattoo on my very-liberal, snarky, under-privileged body, but I admire your tact with this response.

(126 days ago)

paragraphing KILLING me!

(126 days ago)

I said it before and I'll say it again - not enough fart jokes.

For me I came for the columns and stayed for the Playground.
I read all of the columns.. My original favs are Meconium, TM, Don't Forget to Flush, Hausfrau, and Cheapster. (Alternadad I'm sure your ego can withstand me not listing you)
I really like Purls before Swine. I hate crafts but this column makes them totally real and less Martha-Stewart scary.

Overall - it's not your run of the mill Parenting web site. If I wanted that I know where to go… I wanted a place that I could relate to and be entertained.

(126 days ago)

How dare you not like my column which I rarely update and when I do it's forced and haphazard!

(126 days ago)

More of the same...If Babble meets the needs of their key group then more power to them. I know that I'm a relative newbie, but I have felt really comfortable here. I left a comment at JTC's group and tried hard to be nice ... maybe I need more practice.

(126 days ago)

I've dabbled in a lot of online parenting communities and Offsprung is by far my favorite.

This pretty much said it all for me:

"Offsprung, on the other hand, is like going over to the house of a good friend, a friend who has three kids and can’t afford to even dream about a nanny. The house is imperfect. It’s loud. There’s a weird yellow stain with hair clumps behind the toilet. But it’s home, and it’s comfortable, and it’s yours."

(126 days ago)

I've been on Offsprung so long that I: remember the first day of the Playground, have read all 3 Defamishers, did not have to set up a profile to post my first comments, and I am still waiting for my Left Unsaid candy.

And, I used to walk to school, uphill, in the snow, without shoes.

Babble can bite my tacky arse.

(126 days ago)

I also fondly remember paragraph breaks. Sigh.

(126 days ago)

Paragraph breaks shall return, right, Ben? Ben?

(126 days ago)

And user profiles that include answers to various questions, like on Babble? ;)

(126 days ago)

And, *whisper*, html??

(126 days ago)

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/04/neal_pollack_and_rufus_griscom.html

(126 days ago)

My goodness, the innernets are fast...

(126 days ago)

ya' want we should go rough 'im up, boss?

(126 days ago)

Wow, the circularity of the blogosphere is downright circular!!!

(126 days ago)

Whoa.

(126 days ago)

hey wait a minute in the nymag link the article says, 'a little rough around the edges'...

Insert giddy scream here - does that mean I'm edgy again! Woot!

(126 days ago)

Well, thanks for being tacky guys, cause otherwise I wouldn't have wandered over here in time for Nabiscofest. :)

(126 days ago)

Wow. Now I feel like Norm on one of the practical joke episodes of Cheers.

(126 days ago)

Way to stay current with the references, Capp.

(126 days ago)

p.s. No one was talking trash in my group at Babble. Of course the blogger would know that if Rufus hadn't torpedoed the thread.

(126 days ago)

Thanks, Neal. I don't get out much, so I have to do what I can to dredge up memories from college days, although various substances I was consuming at the time make it difficult.

(126 days ago)

GG - "edgy again"...again? I think this might be as close to edgy as I'll ever get. Sigh.

Maybe one of my boys will want to start a band, become a huge rock star and then crash and burn in a blaze of drug-induced glory (fingers crossed)...

(126 days ago)

'Tis a dream to be devoutly wish'd.

(126 days ago)

JM - Nice... phashaa on the lawyers and dr dreams!

Oh and don't forget that the parents will squander all their earnings and they have triumphant comeback 15 yrs later...and do a behind the music (are those still on?).

How edgy could I have ever really been? I mean I am in HR and live in FL. Sigh.

(126 days ago)

I'm so tacky I have pink eye.

(126 days ago)

KInda tacky? Pffft. I can beat that score.

(126 days ago)

http://gawker.com/5004963/hipster-daddy-throwdown-a-vortex-of-do-not-want

Strange bedfellows.

(126 days ago)

"Tacky" and "mature" all in one week? My cup runneth over.

(126 days ago)

I Heart Offsprung. Sailor got me hooked to nealpollack.com by printing off entries and leaving them on the kitchen table. When AD announced Offsprung I just had to visit and MTTM was born!

Since it's start Offsprung has become a happy place for me. It has been a constant in my otherwise crazy life.

(126 days ago)

I think the Gawker post has brought several new parents into the Offsprung fold and none to Babble. So, hah! Or something.

(126 days ago)

Umm... don't they know that tacky IS cool?

(126 days ago)

Wow. It looks like I am going to have to pull out my list to make a few additions.

(126 days ago)

Wow Alternadad. What have you done to be called "execrable"?

Anyway, I still say Offsprung is one of the best communities on the internets. I always look forward to checking in here.

(126 days ago)

Well, "excrable" is derived from "excrement." So you figure out what I've done...

(126 days ago)

"Griscom has been a privileged person his entire life, after all, and he knows that when poor kids are mean to you, it is just because they are jealous". That's AWESOME!

It's also pretty cool that NY Magazine chose pictures that make Alternadad look like a Blues Brother and Rufus Griscom look like Matthew Lesko.

(126 days ago)

Babble also likes to use people's photographs, of their children no less, without permission and/or compensation. There are many instances of this, including this story:

http://flickr.com/photos/sweetjuniper/1398158017/

(126 days ago)

So is Rufus Griscom the son of Nina Griscom? And if so, who the heck is she?

(126 days ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rufus_Griscom

Oh. Dear.

(125 days ago)

i was all for the playground until i read the thread about nasal aspiration. now i could go for a well-censored forum. perhaps one sponsored by nabisco-brand aspirator bulbs.

(125 days ago)

Well, you go to a parenting site, you're gonna find some nasal aspiration. At least we're aspirating IRONICALLY.

(125 days ago)

Mommagrrl - nice article. Its amazing both in how fast it showed up and how many aspects it got wrong!

hey marsh - snot is only the beginning!

(125 days ago)

I have no problem with snot. I do, however, have a problem with the mental image inspired by someone sucking snot out of someone else's nose using their mouth. If that's parenting, I'm in trouble.

(124 days ago)

Dude, clean behind your toilet. Seriously. That's gross.

I had a friend who had weird mushrooms growing behind his toilet. But he was single dude who worked as a bartender. (And I have to admit that I was at least somewhat tempted to eat them to see if I'd hallucinate... [insert shitty trip joke])

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