Well said BoL. Well said.

I'm curious...are you this aware about our election because of time spent here on OS, or is it big news in the rest of the world? I live a pretty insular American life, since I've have almost never been outside its borders and have no idea what the perspective is from other parts of the world.

i think i'm only vaguely aware, but what i know is partly cos of Offsprung, partly cos of stuff i read here leading me to do some extracurricular reading... and partly cos i read world news sites, more than local. However i know there must be more to it, really, cos i don't know much about the state of the State in very many other countries.

Nice rant. I like it. Thanks.

Agreed - good rant.

I avoid the politic threads b/c quite frankly I have enough damn drama in my real life. I don't need to stir up any. I have my opinions and I've made an effort (as an US citizen) to educate my self on the candidates - in other ways.

I think you make a good point too about be more globally minded. I like that.

I hope that the Capt is just taking a cooling off period. Sometimes everyone needs a break.

Well said. I have to admit I was already irritated because he came in and patronizingly shit all over the feminist marriage thread. I was trying my damnedest to follow the "if you can't say anything nice" school of thought.

When my mom started working again in a management position she had a lot of teenage employees. She had HUGE issues because she would talk to her employees the same as she talked to her teenage children, and that was just inappropriate. They were all at work, they all needed to be treated like adults. I would cringe when she talked to them because in that context it sounded so patronizing and demeaning. Eventually she figured out managing teenagers in the work place (or, well, people) was not her strength.

I have found some of the same issues parallel here, where, surely without meaning it, in many threads he adopts a patronizing tone that likely comes from forgetting to talk to adults like adults and teens like teens. I like his stories and feel like he has a lot to offer, but I was never sure he took anything back from the community, that anyone else's opinions or ideas mattered to him. And that's a hard road to hoe.

Finally, I am not sure how political beliefs correspond to people's parenting styles or abilities, as was implied. Even if there is not a huge diversity in political beliefs, there is a huge diversity in the way people parent. The choices some people make would not work for us. But rather than judge them, I follow my number one rule, DO NOT EXTRAPOLATE. All I can offer is my experience based on what worked best for our family. I have no right to tell you what works best for your children and your family. I have NO idea what kind of "parenting" is not being represented by having no McCain supporters, because I see every kind of parenting represented here in the most non-judgmental parenting forum I've ever seen.

Very nice, Bol. :)

ah BoL...this is why we love you.

You go girl!!!

I quit following the other thread about halfway through and wasn't aware of some of the discussion that had occurred. I will just say that I come here because I like the people and the subject matter. I am glad we discuss politics here - I have learned quite a bit and it also give me topics to research in detail to form my own opinions. If we had conservative commenters on here who were as respectful and accepting as everyone else, I wouldn't be bothered by it in the least. Discussing topics with someone who has a different viewpoint can be a wonderful thing, but why is it a "must"?

Why does every site, magazine, organization ,etc. etc. need to be so well rounded? What is wrong with a group that caters to something in particular as long as it is not exclusionary or discriminatory? I mean, how is this any different than the chess club for instance? I would guess even non-chess players can join the club but they have to understand that the focus of the club is chess. Why should the club suddenly have to start playing checkers to make everyone feel welcome?

Just had to express that after reading the other thread.

BoL (and everyone) - I hope you stay here for a long, long time.

Mcglory, " I was never sure he took anything back from the community" that is exactly how i felt. that in itself obviously wasn't a bothersome thing, but the name-calling, snipey stuff was out of line. Personally i get a bit funny about the people who will start many threads but rarely add a comment to an existing one. That's just me, it's not like it's illegal or anything, but i do notice things like that. (Between you and me, i prefer everyone to muck in equally. It's my convict-colony culture; we are all equals. We are all the same decaying matter... wait, that was Fight Club.)

Also i've been wondering why there's not too many McCain supporters on here, and perhaps it's the age thing. Like, if many of supporters are around his age bracket (which would make sense - or thereabouts anyways) then many of them wouldn't be the most net-savvy people. Also, they would be very unlikely to be still parenting. Thus, they would be unlikely to be surfing the net for a parenting site.

I feel like I've been a bit underwater and haven't fully been keeping up...but has Capt been back on other posts since?

Nope. I don't think so.

Bravo BoL. Bravo.

I like the rant, BoL!

I really enjoy the debate threads and read them regularly. PF and I will often talk about them in "real" life as well. It did get pretty tense between the Clinton and Obama teams for awhile but I think folks recognized when we were close to saying things that would be hard to walk away from and everyone backed down.

There might be parenting positions that we miss here because of a generally liberal/progressive approach. There is very little "spare the rod, spoil the child" stuff or "children should be seen but not heard", for example.

I feel, however, like OS is a group of friends, and friends tend to have generally similar attitudes toward life. The OS attitude seems to be "feel free to disagree but respect others' choices"...which seems (at least in the US) to align more naturally with polically liberal positions as well. Folks here also tend to be articulate and a wee bit (ha!) snide. That combination might turn off many folks who could give a lot of interesting ideas about parenting. But...so be it. No place can be all things to all people and I love the atmosphere I find here.

(Capt hasn't started a conversation or posted an essay for 10 days (I just checked his profile) which is quite a gap for a prolific writer. I thoroughly enjoyed his writing and usually respected the flags he threw about liberal overstatements. Like everyone else in this place, he sometimes got fired up...but I hope he comes back.)

I hope he comes back too. JM, you said it about our community--we're all friends. Sometimes friends argue. But I feel like Capt has been questioning his being here for some time. He's hinted at it before in other ways (being the dad of a teen, etc.)

Just because people have different POVs doesn't mean they can't have a healthy debate. Re-reading the original post, I'm not so sure how it went off the rails.

I suppose it's true, JM, there are old school parenting types we don't hear from. I live in Austin where it makes me uncomfortable to hear people talk about loathing breast feeding. It's a weird bubble and my perception of "old school" is probably skewed.

Good rant, Bol. I stopped about halfway through that thread when it was going on, and then went back and re-read it yesterday. Definitely more heated and unpleasant than things generally are around here.

I don't know, I'm not really surprised that Offsprung has a more liberal/moderate-left lean. Maybe I'm completely off the mark here, but it just seems like most very conservative people (not all, but probably most) would be more of the authoritarian type of parents, and nobody here really seems to be like that. So it makes sense to me that OS would skew slightly more liberal than most places.

Also, it was started by Neil fucking Pollack, who isn't exactly a bastion of old school conservativeness and it hasn't really been around long enough or gotten big enough yet to outgrow its roots.

And yeah, I hope Capt comes back, I did enjoy reading most of his posts, even when I didn't necessarily agree with him on everything.

i never expected to get along with everyone on here. There's probably half a dozen or so people i don't really align with, but i don't want them to leave. On the other hand, i don't want them to get uppity and attack individuals and Offsprung in general for being myopic. That seems to somewhat be externalising one's own issues. Projecting, i think the professionals call it.

I would also imagine that anyone with 'old school' parenting styles is unlikely to be surfing looking for parenting advice. More likely to ring their mother or hire a nanny i'd imagine. The mothers at mother's group were all rather conservative and very similar to each other, and they were, all young, blonde, pretty, thin (sucks), and completely technologically illiterate. they weren't even really the type to buy a book on it, far more likely to phone someone or get mum to move in for a while or whatever. Old school tactics i guess.

Also most people can take the mustard, i've been shot down a few times, (i always deserved it) and i'm not the only one. it's character building. life would be so dull without challenges.

i meant "most people *here* ". Darnit.

i tried to find out who mccain's demographic is - obviously this task is nigh on impossible - but this cracks me up:

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080529192716AAqL4Uo

Since I can't be bothered reading more than the first, comment, I'll respond to that.

We always get minor progress updates on a US election, but the whole first woman/first black man primary got heaps of coverage. McCain, I know little about. Obama I know a little more about, but nothing in depth. Policies, etc we would have to research ourselves.

That's kind of what I was thinking BOL. What kind of discussion is needed for "Children should be seen and not heard." Like, whether duct or electrical tape is better for sealing their mouths closed when they whine? (Not that we haven't all been tempted. For the record, duct tape doesn't do well with liquid, but electrical is very thin).

If you're operating on old school paradigms, you can just talk to a parent or grandparent or just do what they did. I have a friend who's like that, she's very traditional and thinks her parents and in laws did a perfect job parenting her (and hey, she's successful and happy so who's to say she's wrong) and are just parenting exactly like that. She doesn't spend much time thinking or talking about parenting. If you're hoping to avoid your parent's model, well, then you're sort of adrift.

>>Policies, etc we would have to research ourselves.

DaD: Same here...same here.

Though Paris Hilton's ad actually clarified a lot for me.