http://tinyurl.com/67s2uu

Okay, I get the point, fellow non-traveller, but must we be assholes about it? I mean, if I attended a wedding where I thought the couple was a poor match, I might consider myself honest to write on their car "Just Married (But Probably Temporarily)," but that would be decidedly jerky.

I actually think it's pretty awesome. They could never get away with that where I live.

I am also blown away that there are some supportive comments below the article. How is it exactly that one gets to go about living in Olympia Washington? And not end up like Courtney Love, that is?

I like that atheism is getting a nod but the quote on the plaque is harsh.

yeah, i mean they might as well write "you're all sheep! sheep i tell you!". cranky, those atheists are. can i put up an agnostic sign that says "meh. whatever. do we get pie?"

bear in mind you can also live in Olympia and end up like Sleater-Kinney. Specifically Carrie Brownstein, if you're lucky.

I'd like to emphasize--I'm an atheist, too. But the same way that I don't like Christians at my funeral chanting, "To Hell he goes!" I don't see the point in pissing on someone's Yuletide parade.

Having a sign is fine, but do you have to insult people in the process? I go out of my way not to insult you (hypothetical you, not anyone here); do you have to bash me? I guess my hardened heart should stop trying to do nice things and making the world a happier place with frolicking bunnies and magical pixie horses. And, you know, food for the hungry and warm clothes for kids and medicine for the sick and all those other unimportant things that enslave our physical bodies as well as our minds.

How about "...There is only our natural world / So let's all treat each other with dignity and respect and make it a decent place to live while we're still living?"

Sorry, but I get really, really upset when people decide I'm a worthless human being who's ruining the whole world because I follow a religion. 'Cause quite honestly, I'd love not to have to be so bloody nice to folks who the human in me detests but the Christian in me is forced to try to love.

Yeah, that sign is a bit much. It's atheists like *that* that give other atheists a bad name.

I'm with you, rommie. Some atheists do feel oppressed, I imagine--you'll not see an openly atheist congressperson or President in our lifetimes. But if one wants to change that, this is not the way to do it.

And, by the by, it's good of you to follow the tenets of your faith when you don't like them, rather than trying to cherry-pick from within your faith to justify detesting people.

I am an Atheist as well, and I am very pissed off that noone told me that we had "Holiday Placards". All these years of wishing that we had a symbol of our lack of religion have been wasted. Just think for all these years I could have put up an offensive placard in my living room, and opointed at it vigorously to all those who came into the house.

Thats the problem with a complete lack of dogma in your non religion, its tough to pass on it's precepts to the next generation.

Actually I am pretty pro religion for an atheist, and see no need to get in peoples faces about things like that.

The Department of Defense gives atheist members of the military graves with the atomic symbol with an A in it. That's right. Cause atheism means science.

Capt it's not a non religion. Religion is by definition a set of held beliefs. Your belief that there is no god counts. But I nit pick because it's a peeve of mine.

I should add that I'm an atheist (born and raised). In high school one of my friends asked why I became an atheist. When I said that I was raised one he said that's no excuse to say one. So I asked him why he was Catholic...

that's 'stay one'. I'm wearing glasses after being a contact wearer for a year.

Well, the actual message is a little harsh (although I do agree with it and would say it to Mr. S, it does seem rude to say it to a religious person's face), but if it's government property, then it should accommodate every religion, including those of us whose religion is none of the above, or be completely secular. So if everyone else wants to put up some kind of holiday sign, then atheists to do.

But, I'm very, very anti-religion and kind of a bitch, so take that as you want.

ks - I agree with you, but I think the sign is walking a fine line of being deliberately offensive. I doubt the religious ones say anything remotely similar, like, "If you don't believe in Jesus, you're going to hell".

I think if you want to convert people, that is not the way to do it. I think the organization who sponsored this just shot themselves in the foot.

I do agree with you mnm, this definitely isn't the way to get converts. But I also find myself exasperated with the "I'm going to hell and I'm a horrible person" message that I get constantly because I don't have a religion, both from actual people and from the culture in general. So I do see where they're coming from.

However, I like the bus ads (I don't remember where--someplace in California?) that say to 'Be good for goodness' sake" that is pissing off the crazies much better.

ks - I like the "be good for goodness' sake" line - I hadn't really thought about it as a atheist moral code before.

I agree that this sign seems to be deliberately agressive and I'm not sure how that helps anyone think rationally about the question.

(Full disclosure: I'm an agnostic married to a Catholic, raising 2 boys in the Catholic church (but they will have to convince me they are rational before I'll allow them to be confirmed - which is the Catholic version of at Bar/Bat Mitzvah), while teaching in a Catholic school so I clearly see the benefits religion can convey...or maybe I'm just schitzophrenic...)

The Why Believe in a God ads
http://whybelieveinagod.org/images.html

I view aggressive, insulting atheists as no better than proselytizers of any other religion. I am an agnostic in kommisioner's style (in fact, I'm totally stealing the "meh, whatever. Do we get pie?" line someday!!) and I have no beef with atheists, Christians or anyone else believing what they believe. And yeah, maybe it's annoying if you're not religious to have trees and menorahs and other paraphernalia of the season around but that sign is just plain insulting. I don't want to have the absolute conviction that there is NO god shouted at me any more than I want to be shouted at that there IS a god.

I don't know. I think I get why people are offended, but I think I empathize more with the position of being so silenced all the time about your beliefs that when you finally get the legally-mandated opportunity to express them, they come out a little bit hard.

I can particularly understand it in the municipal celebration context. Christmastime is a particularly hard time to be an atheist. The celebration of Christmas is so central to American culture that it can feel like there's no space at all for you - there's Christmas everywhere, all the time, for two-plus months a year. In this case, it looks like it started with a "Holiday Tree", which is a Christmas tree, but at least it can be claimed by a number of other religions. It's also, fundamentally, just a tree with some pretty lights on it. Then came the menorah, I would imagine, and this was in response to the tree. I understand why the Jews wanted that - it was because they felt like their membership in the town was erased by the municipal support for the tree. My guess is that the Nativity scene came next. That was probably put there by people who were somewhat offended by the menorah, and who felt that if Jews got their religious symbol represented, and the tree had been desacralized by being renamed a "Holiday Tree", then the Christians should be represented by their truly religious symbol, which is a set of people and animals standing around a manifestation of god. At this point, some atheists also felt silenced, I'm betting particularly by the Nativity scene (which underlines the real reason behind the existence of a municipal Christmas tree and makes it difficult to hide any longer behind the ruse of the Holiday Tree.) At this point, this is no longer about happy thoughts and has become a religious pissing match about who counts enough to get space in front of the capitol building. Thus the atheists' bluntness. They weren't trying to convince anyone of their beliefs (unlike the bus campaign), they were just there to represent.

Hi all. I've been lurking a while, and am now inspired to come out, if you will. It's nice to see my end of the spectrum represented, but that sign is way rude. I'm an agnostic myself, and always felt kind of oppressed by and resentful of outward religious expression, particularly the competitive bumper stickers, billboards, etc... Now I live in The Bahamas, a Christian nation, and have never been more at ease. The Christians here take the whole not judging thing very seriously and expressions of faith are very positive and inclusive and also everywhere all the time.
One local, upon learning of my non-Christianity, exclaimed "but your husband looks just like Jesus!".

conchy - welcome aboard! I must say your description of the Bahamas now makes me want to visit - especially since I live in Southern Baptist land.

MNM - thanks! i love it here, but we're not without fuck-ups. the exception to the not judging is homosexuality. it's a major issue here, with a gay advocacy movement just beginning. we've got so many people on the down-low, i always joke that i could do anything here only dealing with closeted gay men. otherwise it's all 'Hallelujah and amen Jesus loves you dahlin'" and "God bless you, honey".

Well, I'm in Texas if that tells you anything. It's all mega-churches all time. They advertise like crazy and there's about three all-religious channels on cable. There's one guy in particular that my athiest hubby refers to as "the bald-headed freak" or "the undead pastor".

He really is scary looking.

Sincere proponents of most religions believe that the others are wrong. I am well aware that there are self-identifying Christians, Jews, and Muslims who support the "many roads to God" view, but the dogma of each religion says otherwise. It seems well within the abilities of any proponent to express their belief without making this the focus of it.

Muttermutter, I certainly understand (and often experience) the position of the fed-up atheist. I just don't see the point; the message to me expresses exactly the sort of superior condescension that I fear people associate with me when I identify myself as an atheist.

At the end of the day, we're all agnostics, because, in spite of the strength of our individual faiths, none of us actually knows.

Oh, and greetings and welcome, Conchy Mom!

BTW, there is no God. Silly.

Hey, I think I have a slogan for my Christmas banner!

Now see? THAT on a banner wouldn't raise my hackles at all! :)

Personally...I could care less what a person does or does not believe in. However, when they want their beliefs in unprovable things to be the basis for laws that i have to live by, I take vehement exception. Sadly, the two largest religions in the world today have their lunatic minority being seen by non-adherents as the "true" face of their faith....for X-tians, people who shoot abortion doctors as an example...for Muslims, terrorists. The X-tian and the Muslim communities need to get their shit together, and make it clear (by word and action) that the whackoes are only the fringe, or they'll always be defined by the lunatics.

Funny true fact about driving up the 5 from Oregon to Northern Washington, there is this crazy dude who has a giant billboard on his property with a picture of Uncle Sam. On the sign he writes whacked out crazy shit messages about what he thinks God believes. It changes all of the time, and you never know what Jesus Freak message you're going to get. Often they are so hilarious that my husband and I crack up over it for a mile or two.

Somewhat near that is this really freakin crazy statue park thing that looks like a space alien homage to the home planet. I hear tell it is a monument, but seriously it's odd!

My point is, it is Washington - where people don't offend easily when it comes to a strong need to express one's core beliefs in a public or tasteless way.

As an aside, I had the same reaction many of you have here to reading "God is Not Great". The book made me think atheism can be just as pompously absolute in that which nobody can prove until they are dead and unable to share what they have learned, as religiosity.